How is the driver for race two given a grid / lap time for the race 2. This is not described in the regulations for 2021. See section 2.3.
Thanks. Bully.
Hi Bully,
We asked for a particular wording to be put in there in 2.3.3 that covers this, but it seems to have been missed off in the published regs. I have informed Mark Turner at the BARC that we need to have this rectified. The wording will be:
"Where there are two races held at an event, the fastest time set in the qualifying session will determine the car's grid position for race 1, and the second-fastest time set in the same qualifying session will determine the grid position for race 2"
We felt this was fairer than setting the grid for race 2 based on the results of race 1.
So at some point the regs should be re-published with this inserted. I'll let you know when it's been done.
Thanks Chris.
So that means that the fastest driver could set the time for their slower partner effectively putting them out of position that they would have been on their own merit. Surely it would have been simpler to restart the clock at 10 minutes in. Those with two drivers get their own actual qualifying time. ???
Let's see how it goes eh!
Splitting the session in two would have been favourite, but not an option open to us!
Why not Chris ,surely the clock can be reset without stopping the session and it be the responsibility of the 2 driver cars to ensure they do their change, i believe the pickups used to do this. Have we stopped catering for 2 driver cars?
If we haven't stopped catering for 2 driver cars how are pole position and 3 laps minimum qualifying going to work?
Cars starting out of position of talent is not a safe way to start a race.
Chris
I think you need to have a rethink of the wording for qualifying. Your proposed wording will not work.
Cheers
Trevor
Chris,
You also need to consider some wording to take account of lap times being disallowed for track limits in qualifying
Regards
In 2019 I had three races and one 30 min qualifying session. TSL did the timing and BARC were the organisers. They separated the times every 10 mins. and within each 10 mins it determined your grid position. I guess therefore it can be done. Did they say why they are not giving us that option?
I have re-asked the BARC
Thank you Chris. I honestly I don't see how it would of worked effectively for a 2 driver team.
Yes I agree, it would make it very confusing as to who is awarded the 5 points for pole position if the time is set by a different driver to the one who actually starts the race. I think resetting the clock at 10 minutes and encouraging 2 driver cars to swap drivers as close to halfway as possible is the fairest way, hopefully they can find a way to make it work
They (BARC) are looking into wording now. Apparently the timekeepers prefer the "fastest/2nd fastest" method, but I've asked for the session to be reset at 10 minutes in.
This may have to be issued as a bulletin however because the permit has already been given and the regs have been published.
Just to keep you all updated - the BARC have come up with some wording, but it is TSL now who need to come up with a technical solution for this. Us saying "can the clock be reset" sounds very easy, but over at TSL this is causing some problems. They say:
"Whilst the explanation is clear, to actually do this in the timing system is currently not an automated situation. The dilemma is to ensure that the start time of the first lap in the second 10 minutes, which may be before the 9:59:999 moment is actually counted in a reset of the timing system."
So in order to have this, they may have to slightly re-program their timing systems! And there may be a need to have another 'screen' generated so that everyone is aware of the times in both sessions. As you can imagine, this is not something to be taken lightly. This is probably one of the reasons this solution wasn't offered to us at the start - it's not just a case of hitting 'reset' and starting the session over for the second driver - not unless you want the first driver's times to disappear ... :o
Sorry Chris, that that is rubbish!
As I said before, the Pickup championship have been separating their 20 minute session in to two parts for years, with TSL resetting the session time at the 10 minute mark.
This issue is that if you have two drivers, but only qualify by the fastest and 2nd fastest time could mean that someone "qualifies" without actually setting a time.....
You need to get BARC to do 10 minutes qualifying, 5 minutes to get ready for the second session, then 10 minutes qualifying. This will put a lot of pressure on people to set a time, especially at somewhere like Cadwell where the slowest may only do 4 laps......
Trevor, I can only go with what I am being told. Would you like to tell BARC and TSL that they're talking rubbish? You have their contact details I'm sure.
There is a risk here that a driver might not do his 3 laps and also slightly more worrying that a novice driver gets to start on pole for his first race. (can I have all Pete' s second races please?)
Chris
Even though it is the Board's responsibility to come up with the Regulations, I have spoken to BARC regarding how the Pickup Trucks, with TSL input, have manged their qualifying session for years.
I have even suggested the following
There will be one 20 minute qualifying session. The qualifying session will be split with the first 10 minutes setting the grid for the first race and the second 10 minutes setting the grid for the second race. The split between the two parts of qualifying will be signified by the showing of the Union flag at the start line when the clock has reached 10:00.000. Th clock will not be reset and will continue to run for the duration of the session.
A driver competing in the first race must take part in the first 10 minutes of the session. A driver competing in the second race must take part in the second 10 minutes of the session
In order for a lap time to be valid for the first race, it must be completed before the clock has reached 9:59.999
In order for a lap time to be valid for the second race, it must be started after the clock has reached 10:00.000
I'd argue that it's *not* the board's responsibility to write the regs, at least as far as sporting regs go - we're not qualified to do that. That's what we pay the BARC to do for us.
Thanks for the suggestion on wording - hopefully the BARC and TSL can agree on its implementation.
At Cadwell there is 20 minutes "practice" and 20 minutes "Qualifying" sessions ...why not 2 Qualifying? end of problem
A
That would give tsl a longer period of time to sort the solution.
See the attached bulletin relating to your qualifying sessions
thanks for posting that Trev,easy enough to understand.