Classic 2CV Racing Club

So far there are only 6 entries for silverstone and the entry date was yesterday.
Please add your name to the  list if you are going.
Myatt and Robertson

Me and Sparrow

Me and one of our guys. not sure who yet.

Ben

Me & Sammie

Matt Riley & I (sharing) Entry sent last week

Quote from: "Paul Robertson"So far there are only 6 entries for silverstone and the entry date was yesterday.
Please add your name to the  list if you are going by selecting quote in the top right corner.
Myatt and Robertson
Williams  and Sparrow
Allan + one
Fritchley and Sullivan
Riley and Grant

:oops: cant follow instructions

Quote from: "Paul Robertson"

Quote from: "Paul Robertson"So far there are only 6 entries for silverstone and the entry date was yesterday.
Please add your name to the  list if you are going by selecting quote in the top right corner.
Myatt and Robertson
Williams  and Sparrow
Allan + one
Fritchley and Sullivan
Riley and Grant
Crsah Test

CTD
Been on the Jack today????
SWC

wish I had! Maybe its the withdrawal   :shock:

I'm going.

I'm driving one of the Hollis cars but don't yet know who my co-driver is.

Quote from: helen deeley

Quote from: Paul Robertson

Quote from: Paul RobertsonSo far there are only 6 entries for silverstone and the entry date was yesterday.
Please add your name to the  list if you are going by selecting quote in the top right corner.
Myatt and Robertson
Williams  and Sparrow
Allan + one
Fritchley and Sullivan
Riley and Grant
Crsah Test
Barnard + ANO

Sorry, didn't get it right first time (story of my life...)

Please add your name to the  list if you are going by selecting quote in the top right corner.
Myatt and Robertson
Williams  and Sparrow
Allan + one
Fritchley and Sullivan
Riley and Grant
Crsah Test
Barnard + ANO
Derek + (?)(maybe)

Quote from: "helen deeley"

Quote from: "Paul Robertson"

Quote from: "Paul Robertson"So far there are only 6 entries for silverstone and the entry date was yesterday.
Please add your name to the  list if you are going by selecting quote in the top right corner.
Myatt and Robertson
Williams  and Sparrow
Allan + one
Fritchley and Sullivan
Riley and Grant
Crsah Test
Derek Coghill
Frank Barnard
Darren Baker
Nick Roads

only SIX of those entries are official at the closing date

As usual, a pathetic response by the membership of the 2CV Racing Club!!!

If you dont do the races, there will not be a 24 hour race for you to race in, let alone the championship!!

Trev,

I'm not sure who you are having a go at here.  

Is it those that are going to come but aren't rushing with the paperwork?

Is it those that said they would come but now are not?

Or is it those that never said they would come and still aren't?

I'm confused as to who are the pathetic ones.  FYI I'm always late with my entries, it adds to my allure as an International Man of Mystery.

Ben

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular, just stating facts.

I have received my tickets and final instructions and there are 6 entries at the time of "closing" which looks pathetic - FACT

All those who have entered after 2nd July run the risk of BARC taking the late entry fee off them - FACT

We have 60 is racing members, and only 6 can get the entry in on time? Doesn't particularly help me when I am complaining to BARC regarding shoddy treatment at Anglesey - FACT

I am losing all motivation to work on the clubs behalf because the membership doesn't want to support the races that have been organised (mostly to fit in with peoples requests regarding format and spacing between events - FACT

What would you do if you were BARC? Take our complaints seriously? Or not?

Cheers

Trevor

I sympathise with Trevor. Not only is the running of the Club itself based on volunteers caring enough to do an often thankless job, but so is motor-sport in general. The much-maligned BARC has a relatively small full-time management team. The balance comprises enthusiasts who fulfil many roles just because they are enthusiasts, notably race-day officials such as clerks of the course, scrutineers and probably most important of all, marshals. Without these people nobody would go motor-racing.
Personally, I'm a bit puzzled about why it seems so difficult to submit an entry by the closing date. Is it cash-flow, indecision, placing it low on the list of priorities, what? If tardiness gives the impression to the BARC that the Club is in a shaky state, then the solution is obvious.
Having read the various forum entries about the health of the Club it does seem to me, as something of an outsider these days, that the Club is approaching a somewhat critical time. It only takes laziness or indifference to kill the whole thing, and then it might be a shock for members with realise what they've lost. Quite apart from being stuck with race-cars that have nowhere to go. It almost makes you wonder whether the 24-Hours in some way works against the health of the rest of the calendar, with people gearing up for that one big event and not having the energy, the commitment and the resources to bother with the rest. Heresy, I know, but a programme of shorter, cheaper sprints might be worth considering! Or take a deep breath and stage only long-distance enduros, in the manner of the Le Mans Series, say three twelve-hour events. We all like to pretend we're Steve McQueen and kid ourselves we're driving at Le Sarthe. This way we could indulge our fantasies and also attract those other, less committed competitors attracted from other formulae by the big event.
Not sure if all this makes any kind of sense, but I'm going to press the 'Submit' button anyway...

Makes sense to me frank. In an earlier post andy downes mentioned that the 24hr being so soon into the season makes people aim for that and that alone .
 If this is the case maybe we would be better if it was the last race of the season and the entryfee somehow linked to how many rounds your car had done .
The more you support the club the less you pay .

As a long distance observer, I've been watching this for a while and puzzling over how you might fix the problem.

The 24 hour is a huge draw into the series, it certainly was key in getting me to compete in three championship years.  To lose it I think would kill the class, but in keeping it something has to change to get it back to the point where it is feeding into the championship not starving it.

End of season 24hr race makes huge sense to me.  Newcomers have all season to try out their cars in earlier championship rounds and the wear and tear on the cars from the 24hr doesn't affect other races.  You build up to the season highlight rather than having it in May and the rest of the season in it's shadow.

I don't think you want the race too late in the year, so it might mean a lot of other races in the April - July time with the 24 hour late July or August.

Best suggestion in a long time, got to be worth a try .....

Silverstone Entry latest:

Silverstone
21/07/2007
2CV Parts.com Championship
8   Trevor Williams   SWC Racing   Citroen 2CV   602
9   David Sullivan   Tete Rouge Racing   Citroen 2CV   602
9   Sammie Fritchley   Driver   Citroen 2CV   602
12   Aubrey Brocklebank   Driver   Citroen 2CV   602
13   Paul Robertson   Tete Rouge / Myatts.co.uk   Citroen 2CV   602
13   Philip Myatt   Tete Rouge /Myatts.co.uk   Citroen 2CV   602
33   Derek Coghill   Driver   Citroen 2CV   602
40   Brian Doherty   Driver   Citroen 2CV   602
40   Nick Roads   Crisis Racing   Citroen 2CV   602
47   Helen Deeley   Driver   Citroen 2CV   602
66   Nick Grant   Driver   Citroen 2CV   602
68   Frank Barnard   Driver   Citroen 2CV   602
68   Richard Hollis   Hollis Motorsport Power By Nigellspeeds   Citroen 2CV   602
90   Darren Baker   J B Doors Racing   Citroen 2 CV   602

QuoteThe 24 hour is a huge draw into the series, it certainly was key in getting me to compete in three championship years. To lose it I think would kill the class, but in keeping it something has to change to get it back to the point where it is feeding into the championship not starving it.

End of season 24hr race makes huge sense to me. Newcomers have all season to try out their cars in earlier championship rounds and the wear and tear on the cars from the 24hr doesn't affect other races. You build up to the season highlight rather than having it in May and the rest of the season in it's shadow.

I don't think you want the race too late in the year, so it might mean a lot of other races in the April - July time with the 24 hour late July or August.

I agree with you Derek, a later 24 hour would give everyone a chance to get used to the cars in earlier rounds and there would be lots of incentive to do them.

We had planned to do some (but probably not all) of the rounds this season but our car suffered major damage in the 24 hour race and a blown engine; these are all being put right but it takes time and money. We are also committed to the Morgan race series and so have to divide time and resources between the two.

I also agree that if the 24 hour was too late in the season it would not be much fun.

I can anticipate though that the club will have some difficulty in booking a  circuit for a 24 hour race at an affordable price. Grass roots club racing always suffers at the hands of the richer clubs and series.

Ooh twelve now thats just so fantastic.Never mind, scrap's quite high at the moment you should get £60/per tonne so about £40 per car
Myatt and Robertson
Williams and Sparrow
Allan + one
Fritchley and Sullivan
Riley and Grant
Crsah Test
Derek Coghill
Frank Barnard
Darren Baker
Nick Roads
Wayne
Aubrey

any of the dirty dozen above (or the other dozen about to register) planning to test on Friday at Silverstone?, I am thinking of going

also as to general comments on numbers was not the 24 hour number of entrants the highest ever for the club?

I tend to agree with Derek Coghill's comment re: anglesey that it is a little early to panic on numbers however frustrating for those who have to organise all the events.

on a positive note hope to have someone along at Silverstone who wants to run their own car next year

When we signed up to 2 hours did we plan for the expense?
- We've halved our numbers by doubling the entry cost/track time

2 hours sounds great but are we just seeing we've more ambition than cash?

As a wage slave I think I've spotted a flaw
- £600ish is a fair chunk towards the mortgage. Even £300 is a lot this month, so I can't even offer someone a share.

If we are worried about total cost why one earth do people do trophy races round the carpark? The format and location may be mickey mouse but at least it is containable within one paycheck.

BTW - Gobbing off at the pathetic masses is hurtful. By asking for 2 hour races we, the club, are asking for cheques I can't afford. If that makes me pathetic. Fine.

Christian,

While everyone has different budget constraints, it is not correct to suggest a cheaper club would mean more members.  There are no cheaper clubs that race bigger grids.  But all the really popular clubs are far more expensive than us (Caterhams, MaX5 etc).

Surely the real problem is that we are not being honest with ourselves as to who the club is and who it is aiming to pull in.  Does the club want more Gentleman Jim's like me who is less affected by the costs than by the time committment?  Or is the club trying to attract more championship racers who want more rounds with more chances to score points or another group?

We cannot please all.  We will loose, and are losing, everyone if we don't focus on one group.  We have to be honest and decide.  We then must make it clear what that means across the whole of the club structure; Calendar, regs, costs, committments etc.

Ben

Ben , i would have to say it is almost impossible given the apathy in the club from the majority to begin to find out who wants to do anything.

The last two agm's have been extremely badly attended and this to my mind shows up in the last two seasons racing .
If most people only want to do the 24hr race they should come to the agm and say so.
If they only want to spend £1000 on a seasons racing they should say so ,if they only want to race one day at the weekend they should say so ,if they don't want to travel more than 50 miles from their door they should say so.
If the members want to continue racing they MUST come out and race that is what we are a racing club not a rainy day club .
If they don't we will have one race next year assuming someone organises it,because lets face it ,the barc don't want to organise it and do all the paperwork .That has been done by a very few of us in previous years and generally at a cost to individual members.
We have no club chairman now, who is standing up to be counted ? who is willing to give a large chunk of their free time for the benefit of the club,and lead by example by supporting the club in every way?NO FUCKER
 I am not surprised following the criticism on here that trevor has decided to resign now leaving the club without a figurehead.There are very few who have been as committed to the club, especially under the circumstances of the last few years.To constantly be having to coerce members into entering races should not be happening.
It is a recurring theme on this website now but maybe USE IT OR LOSE IT should become the clubs latest slogan.
As for when the agm is or anything else pertaining to the club i guess that's now up to Wayne and Christine to sort out.

Good luck trevor
and THANK YOU

Trevor, remember you stated your concerns regarding washing cars? What happens if you use polish on them?

Just curious to compare; mine now appears to be haunted. When I look at it, there's someone looking back at me.

Must cut down on the lunchtime absinthe....

quick question
i have always said how many of you now can go out tonight and blow 500 quid on booze and a good time??

to be honest if you cant you cant afford to race

racing has never been a poormans sport, so as has been said its ok trying to live the dream but it seems few can afford it,

i dont have a suggestion to help, as good ideas have been put forward
i feel this is the last chance saloon,
a few hardcore members cant work it by them selves, 24 hr entries were up yes but that dosnt make a champoinship i wold think that barc may use the total income of the year to see if the 24 hr is viable, at the moment i would say not.

i wont be there at silverstone, but if all the people who attend bring a £1000 pound cheque to put in a pot for up front entries for next year, and also they bring a cheque for the enties for the remaining rounds to,
cos if low entries are for silverstone whos going to pembry??
maybe folks its time to look at you bank balance and relise that arm chair racing is the thing for you!!

Hi Geoff, I'm going to Pembrey; going to Mallory too (both paid for and I have the receipts).

I don't have a spare grand kicking about to bring to silverstone though.

probably missed it elsewhere but is there a time for the meeting at Silverstone re the club and its future?

saturday early evening waynes world.

Quote from: "Geoff Archer"quick question
i have always said how many of you now can go out tonight and blow 500 quid on booze and a good time??

to be honest if you cant you cant afford to race

if all the people who attend bring a £1000 pound cheque to put in a pot for up front entries for next year,

Cant afford to blow £500 on going out, but somehow I've managed to afford to go racing this year! (with help from my family, bless them) I have no social life now, coz something had to go to fund it....
Certainly cant magic a grand out of nothing for next season, but I am going to Mallory & Pembrey, and I do want to be out again next year, I just cant afford to pay for it upfront.

Hi

What time is evening? Have we got a pit or somewhere to meet? this is just to know whether I need to wear my thermals and monsoon gear.

Terry Collier :lol:

Can I suggest the 3Ps?  Pie, Pees and Pints

Ben

Being a terrible social racer (never thought I would be a gentleman Jim but seems I am..) need to leave around 6 pm returning next day - can early evening be 5pm for meeting?

Not sure if Trevor is going - I very much hope so but if not could he post what is his personal view as to what the club should do in terms of format for next year in the forum

I too have paid and displayed for mallory and pembrey for the record

Wayne wants to go out for a meal nick ,so i can't see it being too late.We should finish racing at 3.15 ish so i would have thought 4.15/4.30 should be attainable.
Steve Panas and i are going to propose that we subsidise next years championship with club funds and we buy the tracktime from the barc .if we do this we should be able to have four meetings with two races of 25 minutes duration on the same day for £180 per meeting based on 20 cars entering and any entries over 20 goes back into the club to offset the subsidy.
If anyone has any proposals can they please bring them in writing so that we can collate all the different ideas and follow them up to see which may be viable options.
Paul

Just a thought, Paul; if barc think that's a good idea and ask if we'd also like (or be able to fit in) a couple of races outside of that to fill gaps in programmes (races tbc as and when available so possibly stuff that other series' don't want) would you/we go for that sort of arrangement too?

I suppose it depends, initially, on the take-up for your proposal; if there's enough people wanting to race they may be prepared to do it elsewhere at short notice.

Derek,
Kinda goes against peoples statements regarding lack of time to go racing because of other commitments

Nick
I am intending to be racing at Silverstone, however I assure you, you do not want to know my opinions at the moment
Cheers
Trevor

:? Can I ask why are we basing figures on 20 cars? Coz I had a spare 5 minutes & looked at previous minutes & the average grid size is 15 cars for 2004, 2005 & only 6 cars did the full season 2006.......

Helen
That is the number that BARC bases it's costings on. Anything below that, they lose money
Cheers
Trevor

Paul has already mentioned that discussions have taken place following Trevor's decision to resign with regard to moving the club forward. I feel the current situation with low turnout needs to be addressed and hence with the support of several members this proposal is to be forwarded for consideration on Saturday.


4 MEETINGS INITIALLY PLUS THE 24 BEING LAST RACE
Four days plus 24hr reduces commitment of time

20-30 MIN QUALIFYING
Gives BARC some flexibility over schedule

2 X 25 MINUTE RACES
Allows running races at long tracks eg Cadwell/Croft

BOTH RACES ON SAME DAY
Caters for those who wish no overnight requirements

REVERSE GRID COMPLETE FOR SECOND RACE FROM RESULT RACE ONE
Creates whole new strategy for all.

DOUBLE POINTS FOR RACE TWO
Retains interest for all and should create varied podium finishes

FORMAT ALLOWS 2 DRIVERS
Enables cost to be spread between drivers

REQUIRES 20 CARS @ £720 FOR SEASON PAID BY END MARCH
Payment to 2CV Club which would pay BARC before season starts.

COST EQUATES TO £90 PER CAR PER RACE

Steve
Could you please email me your working out of the cost, because I cannot see how the figures stack up
Cheers
Trevor

Can I suggest a minor modification to Steve's proposal.

How about shortening the first race and making it a 1 driver sprint and then lengthening the second race and allowing 2 drivers (or single driver with usual lark of running around the car).

I would have a clause that ensures two drivers from first race cannot combine for second race, to encourage genuine 2nd drivers come along.

Costs as proposed sound very good.  This kind of package could bring me out of retirement - I'd be looking to participate as a 2nd driver.

This is a copy of an e-mail i sent to Paul this morning

May I suggest a format for consideration for the 2cv championship next year, you may have noticed how successful the legends championship was when we visited Anglesey & their format for races seems very exciting.

3 races with a grid picked at random for race one, race 2 with a reverse grid of race one & a final race with the grid chosen on the results of the 2 previous races (fastest first). These races should be somewhere in the region of 6-8 laps for the first two & up to 10 laps for the final.

Points should be set out so that races one & two are half the points of the final, i.e. 50 for a win in the these two races, 100 for a win in the final etc...

This I feel would give close & exciting racing whilst & racers are getting a good deal (3 races in a weekend, could even be more if we have a double header)

Hi

Firstly I have no problems with the proposal in concept, but I would like a full picture. It is interesting that we can now apparently get 50 mins racing track time for only £180 this is less than we are paying this year for 1 hour isn't it? How did we manage this? Secondly, taking Helen's point, if we achieve historic levels then we could only get 15 entries at best. This equates to a £3,600 shortfall. I assume we have this money. But what is the contingency plan. If it is to make up any shortfall by raising membership fees then assuming 50 racing members it would mean an increase of £72 per person. I accept that I am generalising a little on numbers but the downside implications do exist. I think that we should have the information to hand in order to give full consideration.

Surely this meeting can only be for discussion not voting!

Terry Collier :?:

Terry,

I think the plan is that we come to agreements for next actions which may include formatting motions for an EGM or postal votes.  

So actually more like a decission (vote) than just a discussion.

Ben

Ben
Don't know where you get the idea that a postal vote would be legal. I suggest anyone intending to turn up for the discussion reads the rules of the club

Derek
Wouldn't that be exactly like the sprint / enduro format we were running a few years back? Wasn't exactly popular in the last few years

Terry,
I agree that we need FULL details and costings in order to even consider Steve's proposal

Cheers
Trevor

In general I think the Steve Panas & Co proposal is the best so far. But how would such a programme work out re.dates? It needs to be a 'proper' season and not artificially compressed to allow for the 24-Hours to be the climax. Not following motor-sport so closely these days I hadn't realised the 24-hours of Silverstone happens in September, as someone pointed out. Nonetheless, maybe something could be worked out so the programme could run a reasonable course and the year could be rounded-off satisfactorily...
A general point. There's been some good, thoughtful stuff posted and I do hope suggestions at the Silverstone Summit are given due consideration, even if they've been tried before & failed or someone hasn't perhaps read all the small print. There may still be a germ of sense, something usable in what is put forward. Those attending, plus those who've contributed to the Forum, are the one's who've at least roused themselves to think about the situation. It's the resounding silence from the rest that must be unnerving. A couple of hundred hits, for example, but how many replies?
Finally, publicity-wise 2CV racing seems to have fallen off the front page, or any page come to that. I checked Autosport for a report on Anglesey and the only mention was in the results. No comment at all on the races themselves. I reckon the Club has cause for complaint to Autosport editorial. Perhaps more active promotion is an area where some of the Club funds might be invested. It doesn't have to cost the earth. Good PR can be quite cheap compared to advertising. A decent press release costs the paper it goes out on...and no doubt we could all generate some publicity wheezes like celebrity cars, win a test day, run a promotional road-going racer in the newly revived Tour Of Britain etc etc

Can I suggest that we run next season in the same format as this year, keeping the enduro races & the 24hr in May as is, and do a similar thing to what happened at Anglesey, ie BARC set the fees, and then the club does a refund/ subsidy in the form of a cheque after the race to all those who turn up & take part?

What the hell does the clubs rules have to do with THIS meeting? is it a formal meeting called by the club ?NO.
The costings are based on the club using its reserves to subsidise the championship and definitely stack up.
However other people have ideas of their own and they need to be discussed ,so that we can go to the agm with a plan that every member is aware of beforehand.

Hi everyone.

Just a quick note to say can you look at my post under the anglesey subside heading.

If you disagree with what I have put, then please find me before the meeting and have a chat then. Please dont bottle anything up for the meeting.

All those that frequent the forum need to be aware that many members do not. They, particularly, need to be able to have their say at meeting. They do not use the opportunity on here.

Lets hope that Wayne's marquee is far too small a venue to hold the meeting. I will suggest our treasurer will ask Silverstone for the loan of a building.

Perhaps we need to start the meeting at Silverstone (EGM not AGM) with a group hug. Where is the Lurve man?

Ainslie you have read my comments on the forum, whilst i agree with you on the fact that what haapened at anglesey might have gone against club rules it sure as was the right thing to do!

In the end its a meeting between club members to talk about taking the club forward, it should not be a slagging match about what has happened in the past because thats exactly what it is, the past. The only discusion at the meeting should be about the future! See you all at silverstone.

QuoteAll those that frequent the forum need to be aware that many members do not. They, particularly, need to be able to have their say at meeting. They do not use the opportunity on here.

That is a very valid point, there are plenty of people who don't find the internet a natural medium for expressing their views and are not comfortable with using forums, indeed may never have used one.

I am sure that I will be told that circular letters have not worked inthe past but I do think the club owes it to non-forum members to be made aware in writing of what is going on, they may be in a state of blissful ignorance. It will of course be too late for them to be told of the meeting this weekend.

But why? this is not an official meeting of the club in anyway & has no standing in club regulations, its a meeting to see which direction the club should be looking in for which everything will be discussed properly at the AGM later in the year!

I know it is an unofficial meeting and it is often at such meetings that the best decisions are made.

I just thought it might help to involve the wider membership in the apparent crisis.

For the benefit of those of us unable to attend (and yet interested in the outcome!), any news for us from the meeting?

It was decided to call all members and car owners to try and find out why they are keeping their cars in storage and if they would support steve and my proposal (or at least some of it ) and if they would be prepared to pay in advance.
So expect a phone call soon.
The date for the agm was discussed as was the temporary appointment of a new chairperson although i don't think it is my place to report either of these as it should be done by an officer of the club.
The use of club funds to subsidise racing was discussed and most people thought it to be a good idea.
The need for members to attend the agm was also discussed as there were more members at this informal meeting than at last years agm.
In all most people thought it to be a useful chat to move things forward from.