oulton park meeting

[Louis]

Replying to flat bar / foot ergonomics..

I'd rather be uncomfortable and have a stronger cage. I think the 5mm bar seam welded to the floor may just have ripped the floor up - however I have no evidence for this just what I imagine would happen.

[Trevor Williams]

Thanks for posting that video Matt, makes interesting viewing!!

On the subject of flat bar, roll cage tubing or box section, PLEASE be very careful what you all do ( if anything) in the next week. As the regulations stand, the only material that should be between the roll cage feet is 50x5mm flat bar or roll cage tubing of the same dimensions as that already installed. ANYTHING else would be a breach of the regulations. UNLESS you get a bulletin issued from BARC on safety grounds (because you aren't going to get every registered competitor to agree in writing to a change in the next 6 days)

If you want to weld cross bars into the rollcage at dash height, you already can. The regs no longer make reference to a specific drawing for the rollcage, just a couple of regulations, plus you have the optional reinforcement provisions. Have a look at the Blue Book before making changes that aren't necessary

Trevor

[Chris Yates]

Ok, so technically with the regs now being published as they were last year (the changes agreed at the AGM are NOT present), we should have the cross bars welded AND bolted to *the cage feet* and welded at the chassis joins.

That's how I understand it at present anyway.

[Trevor Williams]

Chris,
That's what the regs say. My point being that anyone using / installing a box section would be in breach of this, unless a bulletin was issued

[Scooterman]

Controversial perhaps, but surely a bit of 'give' in the flat bars has probably saved Nick from further injury? The flat steel has flexed and absorbed the impact, if there was a rigid steel bar, is there not a danger that the softest bit in the middle (the driver) is subjected to greater forces?

[Louis]

Like a crumple zone, it's not a bad thing, however your feet tend to be within the crumple zone.

[Andrew Bull]

"The pictures and video are similar to my recollection of what happened. Not sure we will know exactly the sequence of events. Stewards told me they had it all on video and it was a 'racing incident' after I had given a statement. I was, and am, happy with that conclusion"


In response to Nicks post,  excerpt above;
I was in the pit lane and didn't see the incident. However I personally am very pissed about the whole thing. We've wrecked several cars with severe damage to several more. Put a close friend of mine in hospital, caused complete disruption to the race day, probably now being resented as a club by the other clubs on the card (think about how we usually assume it's the cater hams or open wheelers), we have total photographic and video evidence of the whole incident clearly documenting the whole thing. Yet the whole discussion here is about the strength of the flat bar. GET SOME PRIORITY ACKNOWLEDGE THE ROOT CAUSE. GUNG HO FIRST CORNER, MORE THAN ONE CAR WITH ALL 4 WHEELS OVER THE KERB AND STARTING THE CHAIN OF EVENTS WAS THE ROOT CAUSE.

We can clearly see the exact sequence of events!  Man up! I don't point the finger often but surely we should be addressing the driving standards too.  

Wrt The cars, they have done their job.  At the end of the day they have contained and protected the occupant as designed.
We all accept there is an element of risk, (even myself standing or working in pig lane) however the fundamental principle of Continuous Improvement with regard to safety is what the FIA right down to our club level is supporting. This is one of the functions of the technical committee.  I suggest that rather than knee jerk reacting to one incident we actually conduct an improvement opportunity in a structured manner and through the appropriate channels.  @tech committe members. Does the floor bar need reviewing.? It's installation validating in current cars? should we be recalculating cage design?

@moderator, please remove if you feel this is too strong but I think it has to be said.
Apologies for the rant.

[Scooterman]

Like Glenn said, a green flag lap would have helped. The first corner is pretty much one line and there were damp patches. Both Nick and Sammie ran wide at the first corner, unfortunately Nick was at an angle that put him in to a spin. After that, there was a bad crash, pretty much as serious as you can get in a 2cv.

I like everyone was upset by what I saw, the sight of Nick's car recoiling in front of me after a huge smash (Sammie was to my left and my main focus was not to hit Nick) made me question what we are doing, but we all know the risks and these things can always happen. There were a few factors involved and nothing was deliberate.

Fortunately nobody is seriously injured, that is down to the MSA safety regs and everyone involved in the technical committee over the years.

There are lessons to be learned, but not one factor or person can be entirely blamed.

[Steve Panas]

Bully's rant is magnificent and wholly accurate. But you must spend less time in the "piglane" ;D

[Derek Coghill]

I agree with Bully.

Chris/Nick:- the plate at the back of the Belgian rollcage is there because they're allowed to cut the rear of the body away, thus exposing the fuel tank in the event of a collision.

The regulation was introduced after such a collision.

[naughtybear]

Quick video of the 1st lap shunt from the very back of the grid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw9GgCc6fO4

If for some reason Youtube is showing the full 35 minute version (it says it has edited it down), go to about 14:00 to see the start

At approx 54 seconds on this footage there appears to be a battery going across the front of the blueberry muffin, am i seeing things?

[Nick Roads]

That was mine..marshalls kindly put it back in my car where it proceeded to eat through the floor as it leaked over the next few days

[Ken]

Assault and battery?    ;)

That was mine..marshalls kindly put it back in my car where it proceeded to eat through the floor as it leaked over the next few days