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24hr press article

Started by Maisie, August 17, 2016, 14:11:27

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Maisie

So now the race is done and dusted, what do I think of the C1? OK, yes, it proved very reliable. But why wouldn't it be? It's a modern car. My Fiat 500 has done 45,000 miles since I've had it and I'm sure I've done a lot more than 24hrs in it. OK, I might not be jumping kerbs or braking and accelerating so hard, but I'm hardly Miss Daisy and I'd be very disappointed if it hadn't covered that distance without using more than a couple of sets of brakes and tyres, fuel and the occasional bulb. The manufacturer has done all the hard work of engineering it for me.
The C1 is a perfectly capable car, but sadly lacking in personality (as are most modern cars which have regressed to an aerodynamic norm of shape). As I've said earlier, people do this not just for the endurance race aspect, but because they love the 2CV. At leasy the Euros share some styling cues and the Minis have that classic appeal.
As Trevor said, there are plenty of places you could go to race a C1. There is ONE place where you can race a 2CV. If the C1 is allowed to proliferate and dilute and devalue the 2CV racing, then there will be NOWHERE we can race our cars.
After all, this is an ENDURANCE race. We all accept that maybe a driver will buzz an engine, or a bearing might go or something else. It's getting that unique mix of prep, driving skill, reliability, economy and LUCK right to win the race that gets the satisfaction. It's the feeling of overcoming adversity, when everything comes together. Where's the challenge in buying something modern, throwing a few basic mods at it (and believe me if there were more racing regularly those mods would be just as trick as anything anyone's ever tried on 2CVs, it would still be the person with the deepest pocket buying the trickest bits or the craftiest brains coming up with something no-one's tried before).
So please let's make very, very sure we canvas the opinion of EVERYONE in this club, listen to the answers and not rush into something that will potentially kill off one of the best championships out there.
Blueberry Tart ;)

Andrew Bull

Introducing guests in to the 24hr race has diluted the race. However. We invited the Belgians. Cars already running in a championship to a set of rules and still basically A-series in DNA. the mini's are not 2cvs and yes I'm not 100% about them either. But again they are a classic club run and filled with enthusiasts and garage owners who have businesses either in the mini world of are motorsport teams looking for a classic to play with. Both these cars are faster than the 2cv and have detracted from the UK race in the press and media channels. I was most disappointed with the radio commentary. I listened at any available Opportunity and it felt like there was no chatter about the uk cars. "C1 this and c1 that". What a great experimenting .....fantastic car" it's run for 24hrs..... C1."  I was not impressed. And when you look in any press reports...look to see who won and what the picture is. We have reduced the uk class visibility by introducing faster cars to our own race.! 

What They both are however are a separate pool of cars and drivers. I don't see any 2cv'ers racing the mini in the 24hr.  If we introduce a brand new car, under our club then the pool you are targeting are the very people that we want to support to bring out thier 2cv. We haven't opened up a new market or new target audience from which to obtain racers.

Reliability of c1s. Wouldn't the race be predictable. And boring. With so much reliability the charm, skill, experience, strategy and luck will be negated.  The fastest car (most developed in capable hands) will win. Then not much of a challenge for me or my spanner wielding friends up and down the pit lanes.

Secondly, modern yes. Reliable. Bloody should be. Tyson proof?  Never!  You still have damage costs.

Performance parity?  It is absolutely irrelevant how you lay down any rules or regs or what they say. The smart guys and resourced guys and gals will be at the front developing the car or blue printing / repairing / choosing new parts / testing three different engines that they bought and rolling reading them to find the best one they can out if a selection. The same people will be at the front except we will be trying to police a new set of rules and discourage developments and performance gains.
There is only one way to do this. Use the model that any car can be bought from any competitor for a fixed fee no more no less and a sale must be agreed cars swapped. So in theory if the cars are the same Adam would be able to turn up with his car and the. Swap it with Pete and it wouldn't make any difference.!!  Or cars are owned by the club and maintained by the club and drawn out of a hat for racing at each race. A bit off topic there!!
As I have said before I like the C1Aygo107.  I am looking for one as a tow along for my Motorhome. As a road car it reminded me of driving the 2cv..... fun and thrash able. However I have had years of fun with 2cvs. This is the 2CV RACING CLUB.
If we must review inviting another car it must be a separate series where cars and competitors already exist. They are made to be slower so a uk car can have an outright win and A new pool of people elsewhere as our our new target market.  If we make a cheaper alternative to the 2cv it will kill off 2cv racing and the field will all convert to the alternative. Only the die hard, hardcore enthusiast for the mighty dueche will remain in small numbers.



Andrew Bull
TĂȘte Rouge Racing with Habitabull & Propolis
Rookie Champion       2022
team champions         1998 2000 2008 2009 2013
24hr winners               2005 2006 2009 2010 
championship winner 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2013

Derek Coghill

I'm not in favour of the C1. All that it does is put another slightly faster car into the field to try to bully its way through and remove drivers that might otherwise have entered 2CVs.

If you want more speed, then go and race a Saxo (that view applies to quite a few rule changes, incidentally).

Simon Crook

as always interesting reading - did anyone get to the bottom of the article?

Simon Crook - Back Racing in 2013
LUMACA RACING

Louis

Firstly I'd like to say thank you to all those who helped get 31 cars on the grid, the entrants, marshals, mechanics, team members and of course the board.

As said by Maria, it's important that EVERYONE's opinion is canvassed... A lot of the opinion I heard in the paddock is not voiced here, several people said it was good some one was trying something to try and help the 24hr (with their own time and money not the clubs), surprisingly few '2cv people' said they'd like a go. That's good isn't it? 2cv racers (bar a couple of exceptions) didn't want to race a C1, a sentiment reflected here it seems.

Anyway I'd consider my self a 2cv person, feel free to challenge me on this, but I've had several variants, currently own 4, drove one everyday for 3 years until commuting and salt started to destroy it, I've been coming to 2cv racing since before I remember. As far as I'm comcerned the car and its ethos run in my veins. I was very much looking forward to driving the daughter car this year, I've driven the mother car on a track day but never the daughter car, both were childhood heroes of mine. I think it's good to have been a 2cv person in a C1, an open mind for a different view.

I raced a C1, and I wouldn't mind a go in a Mini. I'll challenge the point about character, I believe it's actually probably one of the most fun and characterful 'modern' cars you can buy. I say 'modern' because it has about the same amount of electronics in it as my old AX GTi (1992 so presumably developed 88 onwards). Never had any like or dislike for them previously just a view that in white they look like a washing machine! I had great fun drafting several times, couldn't see a thing in the wet in the first stint. Could make a brilliant standalone series.

The C1 was faster than I thought it'd be, is this a problem? In its own race series, not at all, in our 24hr maybe. I'd like to see a 2cv win overall or at least have the chance. I think in future we need to look at fair ways of giving every class the opportunity for an outright win. I believe we have the data now to allow this, I think the best way to do this is with a lap penalty.

On the commentary, there was a little on C1s mainly seemed to be based on the novelty, most of it focused on the hybrids as they were in the lead, which would be resolved with a system whereby all cars could win.

So; there is no proposal to introduce the C1 into our series despite the tone of the article. I don't believe the C1 should be in our series, that's my personal opinion. Other club members have disagreed with me on this, and no it wasn't Anyone who sits on the board.

Does it damage the 2cv 24hr? Not really. I don't think it made anybody else's race worse as result of the C1? The fears of a C1 obliterating a 2cv amassed to nothing, in fact Caryl's car got a good couple of dents from a 2cv and Philip's a good dent from a Mini. We already have other classes, and the C1 may further subsidise 2cv racing.

Repair costs, yep I've got some of those.

People who I've tried to get into a 2cv and failed (all licence holders and racers) have been very keen! Unfortunately there is a stigma associated with the 2cv, and after 27 years I think we can agree that it's not going anywhere. I think this means really your 2cv driver pool is limited to those who can see past the stigma.

I think people who want to race a 2cv will always race a 2cv. I'm racing a 2cv(ish) at Spa, and I'll most likely race a 2cv next year.
If you don't enter a 2cv because a C1 is entered, I don't think you really want to race a 2cv, you damage the club with that sentiment, the best way to push back against a C1 is surely to enter a 2cv and prove the numbers are not needed?

If you do not like the C1 enter and race a 2cv, vote with your entry

What should we, as a club, do? The sprint series is always well attended, I think the formula works. 3-5 more cars would make it very well attended. In June the 24hr had 6/7 UK 2cvs entered, 12 overall and a likely final entry number of 17 (correct me if I'm wrong).
The discussion at the board meeting briefly touched on cancelling the 24hr to protect the club and allow it to continue. All agreed this was not an option, the 24hr is the jewel in the crown of the series. This is why the C1 and UK Hybrid were proposed for this years race. I voted in favour of both.

The C1 has been a trial, I'm not sure what the outcome will be. As I stated above no proposal relating to the C1.

It's clear to me that we must get more 2cvs out for the 24hr. I would love to see a full grid of 2cvs. I don't know how we do this but I know we will be trying to gather data soon.
Please help with this, be honest, tell the club what would get your car our, and how you think you can fill it with drivers.
For me, I didn't enter 66 with Paul as we both decided we needed a break, not just for us but for our friends and family who dedicate their whole August to our selfish hobby..

Paul


I like your idea of a penalty so each class could possibly win Louis.
Working on average lap scores for the leading car in each class over the past 3 years this is my estimation .
Euro hybrid no extra laps
C1 + 37 laps
Uk2cv club class +65 laps
Mini Grand +68 laps
Euro Ameliore +129 laps


If you go on this years results
C1 +31 laps
Mini Grand+61 laps
Uk2cv club class +75 laps
Euro Ameliore +123 laps
Euro Prototype +320 laps





Nick Roads

Sitting on the fence about the C1 I find myself agreeing with all the comments. Having spent a lot of time and effort on getting cars to the 24 Hour my summary for that event would be:

For entry prices to stabilise or come down slightly there needs to be grid sizes of 30+

Neutrals like the variety of cars at the race - no surprise the commentators cover them. What was a surprise listening was the tweets and other comments coming in. Near midnight I was listening to commentary coming in on Social media that Car 153 (Dalkin Euro) being described as beautiful and somewhat like the Nissan delta wing...

The club tried offering cheaper motor sport closer to the DNA of 2CV racing - it was called the economy class. That failed and has been quietly retired. Its not simply about being the cheapest that will get people out racing.

Getting a team together is a major exercise for an endurance race. These older 2CV race cars in barns need a lot of TLC to get up to race standard. To then find drivers, crew etc is simply not viable for any significant number. They should be enticed back to the sprint races first but it will take years to get them endurance racing.

It is the club's 24 Hour race and that can never be taken away. I think we should all accept that other classes are necessary in the next few years. After that its simply a question of finding the best fit - it will involve allowing different classes from time to time.

The article that started this thread off clearly wrong but it was publicity and better to have some than none.





Roy Eastwood

Undoubtedly one of the attractions of faster C1s amongst UK 2cvs is their ability to overtake the 2cvs in anybody's hands, overtaking is sometimes fun but a lot more so if there is the achievement of overtaking something with the same capability having made a classic duck & dive manoeuver. I can overtake 2cvs in my Renault Master, VW Touran or Camper, never felt much pleasure though.

Bart van Wijngaarden

Quote from: Roy Eastwood on August 25, 2016, 21:27:07
Undoubtedly one of the attractions of faster C1s amongst UK 2cvs is their ability to overtake the 2cvs in anybody's hands, overtaking is sometimes fun but a lot more so if there is the achievement of overtaking something with the same capability having made a classic duck & dive manoeuver. I can overtake 2cvs in my Renault Master, VW Touran or Camper, never felt much pleasure though.
entirely off topic, but I met an A7 this week which didn't like me overtaking him, so he put his foot down. Met him again a couple of minutes later at the next traffic lights and I managed to pull away a good bit :o Then he had to overtake me and stay left at the next traffic lights, so I went right (this is on the european continent ;)). He was a bit brighter that time, but still I got 3 or 4m before he started moving and he couldn't make it back up before we got to 50/60kmh  ;D All that with only some 30hp, who needs a BMW bike engine? ;)