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2017 24hr

Started by Simon Crook, August 21, 2017, 12:41:02

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Paul

I brought this up in post race scrutineering Nick,apparently the scrutineers couldn't find it in the regs. When i pointed it out to them they said you could see through the car just therefore it wasn't completely obscured.This rule needs changing.

CLEAR VIEW It is prohibited to completely obscure the view through the car from front to rear by the addition of strips of tape or similar. In the event of dispute as to compliance with the regulation the decision of the Chief Scrutineer shall be final.

Louis

I agree with all the comments around safety, we must look at the roll cages and understand how we can improve (back stay to main hoop bars for example). We must also look into the quality of cages and how we can scrutineer them. I heard some worrying rumours about drilled bars on the floors in cages, total madness.

Simon Crook

Quote from: Paul on August 22, 2017, 15:05:00
Quote from: Simon Crook on August 22, 2017, 12:31:10
Have to agree with Pete here on the seat mount side of things, mine are how the regulations state, I am not sure that my seat would have stayed put in such an impact although my cage is tied into the body at the front - I was thinking about this yesterday, what if it was a pay to drive driver in the car and something like this happened I don't think I would ever be able to forgive myself -   
I wouldn't be able to forgive myself who ever it was Simon. I'm just glad we built the car to protect me(larger than the average bear) from injury.
Seeing Chris's car was bad enough when that came in,let alone seeing Mycar(88) .which i couldn't face looking at properly until Monday.
The floor is largely intact because of the way the cage and 50x5 flat bar were installed,the seat frame(made of 10mm and 5mm aluminium angle) is strong enough to lift the car with i'm glad to say.
Paul I can under fully understand your feeling - many years ago when I broke both my feet in a race car - I could not look at the car at all for weeks - all of us want to race, have fun and go to work the following day like most i am the provider for family - I for one will be certainly getting the seat mounting looked at and altered to make safe - weights not an issue on my car I am heavy anyway, my drivers along with my own safety has to come first   
Simon Crook - Back Racing in 2013
LUMACA RACING

Simon Crook

Quote from: Louis on August 22, 2017, 17:55:53
I agree with all the comments around safety, we must look at the roll cages and understand how we can improve (back stay to main hoop bars for example). We must also look into the quality of cages and how we can scrutineer them. I heard some worrying rumours about drilled bars on the floors in cages, total madness.

Lots of things like this go on Louis I brought an oval car a few years ago and we could not work out how the car was so light, turns out that the whole roll cage except the rear hoop was made out of exhaust tube and sleeved where the inspection holes where drilled!!!!!!
Simon Crook - Back Racing in 2013
LUMACA RACING

Nick Roads

I assume seat belt location and way they are fitted to car will form part of any review. After my Oulton crash (car 92) somebody told me that belt mounting points are more important than frame mounting. If the frame breaks the belts should hold you, if the belt mounts fail then you have major problems however good the frame. Appreciate some belts attached to frames at all or some points so in those cases focus on the frame.

My seat was badly broken at Oulton and I suspect the hip harness may have been at the wrong angle, the hip belts according to manufacturer sites I have seen state that they should be mounted as close to the line of the leg and hip as practical & at an angle of 45-60 degrees. Moving the seat more centrally while using the cars original belt locations at the B pillar may not be best location for instance. The belt mount locations in Car 92 crash were all fine.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Ar79wlZ8lNamtDSW1fNm1KWUk/view?usp=sharing. Not much of a frame either if you look at the photos but that did hold being attached to plates.

The seat uprights also were bent on Car 40 at Snet I noticed like mine above - so the 'frames' seem to hold better than the uprights in all these accidents, maybe its by design the uprights are meant to flex.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Ar79wlZ8lNU3h0Rms0VWZ2anM/view?usp=sharing The seat was not very straight afterwards.

I agree with Wayne and Pete amongst others that the driver should for safety reasons be more central if possible. If Car 92 had been left hand drive I doubt I would be walking very well today.

Reading Chris and Louis's notes is I am going to look at adding tube between the vertical roll cage behind the B pillar and the rear cage legs to brace them.

Also at CSCC scrutinner this year with my hybrid car they wanted to see roll cage bar between the feet running forwards (below the hip bar).

Derek Coghill

I agree about the lack of visibility. Does that lead on to a conversation about a limit on lumen outputs?

Louis

The Technical Comittee have discussed this on several occasions. Measuring the light output is difficult and inconsistent without a dark room and proper equipment.  Limiting the light output in lumens or Lux at a distance will not stop glare, which is the issue.  I think all we can do about that is regulate the type of lamps, bulbs and fogs used, like in other series, then regulate that the road beam pattern is kept but that doesn't prevent someone driving round with main beam on behind you.

It sounds ridiculous but I've found the best thing for the glare to be a lightly tinted visor.

Dan Willan

On a lighter note, I'd like to thank everyone from the four ECAS drivers. Paul, Fred, Phil & myself had an absolutely fantastic weekend! We had no idea what to expect - Fred has raced karts & single seaters, Phil raced tin tops 25+ years ago and while Paul has worked on the engineering side he, like me, had never actually done a race.

What we experienced was the best weekend's motorsport any of us has ever had.

Camaraderie, advice, banter, helping hands, competition. Just mega. We all loved driving the car too; its a real challenge to nail a 'perfect' lap and the racing was brilliant. Massive thank you to the Team Gadget caterers too, you girls made the weekend.

Really hope to return, although I think we used up all our luck this year!

biggles

Re Rear screens Most of the minis one could see through because there were spaces The worst car was Rebellion  which was opaque  in daytime and  totally blank at night with lights

Maisie

Quote from: Dan Willan on August 23, 2017, 12:21:26
On a lighter note, I'd like to thank everyone from the four ECAS drivers. Paul, Fred, Phil & myself had an absolutely fantastic weekend! We had no idea what to expect - Fred has raced karts & single seaters, Phil raced tin tops 25+ years ago and while Paul has worked on the engineering side he, like me, had never actually done a race.

What we experienced was the best weekend's motorsport any of us has ever had.

Camaraderie, advice, banter, helping hands, competition. Just mega. We all loved driving the car too; its a real challenge to nail a 'perfect' lap and the racing was brilliant. Massive thank you to the Team Gadget caterers too, you girls made the weekend.

Really hope to return, although I think we used up all our luck this year!

Very glad you enjoyed it! What you've written pretty much sums up what makes the race great. The cars are fun (and not easy!) to drive, the racing is close and the paddock inhabitants are the nicest bunch of guys you could hope to be trapped at a circuit with for a weekend!
Blueberry Tart ;)

Dartiailh

I would also suggest that there is a review on the night time yellow flags. As I am sure most of you will have noticed these illuminated yellow wands are very hard to see, especially when you have another car behind.

Paul

Quote from: Dartiailh on August 23, 2017, 13:03:45
I would also suggest that there is a review on the night time yellow flags. As I am sure most of you will have noticed these illuminated yellow wands are very hard to see, especially when you have another car behind.
I have been thinking about those James,i was wondering if each post couldn't have a pair of yellow beacons . Used singly or as a pair like waved yellows

Trevor Williams

Did they not use the circuit light boards?
Some days, it's REALLY difficult being me!

biggles

Dont think that marshals hut has a light board or wasnt working Can they independently control?  I didnt see one but the baton  was being waved  and James was tucked right underneath it moving very slowly

Paul

The thing with the baton's is you almost have to be looking for them they aren't exactly Mensa level of brightness.A beacon would give off so much light that even if you were unsighted of the marshal you would still see the flash .