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Anglesey - BARC NW Concerns re Grid Size

Started by Trevor Williams, June 18, 2007, 11:39:19

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Chris Yates

Quote from: "Paul Robertson"In my opinion we should go to anglesey and use the clubs funds to pay the shortfall up to the minimum entry level .We are after all a racing club and not a savings scheme ,and those who don't turn up won't get the benefit.

Could we possibly use some of the club money to 'sponsor' the entry at Anglesey? Perhaps reduce the entry fee for those willing to race there, as an incentive? Might reduce the 'blow' of the large chunk of money to be paid out so soon after Snet..

Ideally, we need to find out the reasons from each member why they're *not* attending Anglesey. I imagine the reasons will boil down to some of the following:

1) Cost
2) Drivers/crew on holiday (it is June/July after all)
3) Distance to circuit (quite a few SE racers, aren't there?)
4) Damage after Snet
5) Fear of unknown circuit?

Realistically, cost is the only one we can do something about, except possible reassurane for number 5.

Mary Lindsay

Matt, I have driven in 5 Willhire 24 hour races between 1980 and 1984 and in all of those our team car was touched only once by another car.

I have also driven in countless 6 hour relay races and never had any contact at all in those. It does seem a bit excessive to have that many hits in one race.

Trevor Williams

Matt
Yes a two month break after the 24 hour might be good, but then you hit the snag of:
a) Only having one race per month (AGM requirement)
b) Not racing in August cos thats when the school holidays are (AGM request)
c) Finishing the season in October (To enable AGM to happen - Club requirement and regs to be submitted in time for early November - BARC requirement)

We have given the membership what they voted for at the last two AGM's. The dates are published in February - with a draft in my hands by the end of the previous November.

Ben, to be perfectly honest I am tired of asking the membership what they want, especially when we give them what they have asked for  and every year I seem to have to make more and more phone calls and emails to drum up support for various races

Chris, not to put too fine a point on it, I live in the south-east, Anglesey is at least 6 hours away from me, and I have been there every year we have raced there since I have been a member of the club. As for fear of a new track, tha is hardly a reason not to go racing is it? Every track is new in your first year
There are many reasons why people arent doing Anglesey, ranging from cost, distance to imminent arrival of first offspring. Thats life.

Subsidising the Anglesey entry may seem like a good idea, and I am considering it for the people who enter the race, especially if we hit the minimum number of fully paid entries.
However, where does it stop? Silverstone? Pembrey? Club out of money very fast = no more racing

And just for info, as of now, Silverstone = 2, Mallory = 3, Pembrey = 2

Entry so far:
Received by BARC NW
Me, Sammie, Wayne, Helen, Phil Myatt,Matt Riley, Derek, Neil Thompson, Aubrey
In the post:
Steve Panas

Five more gets us to the minimum, if that happens we will look at a level of subsidy which would make it worthwhile (in the region of 33%)

Trevor
Some days, it's REALLY difficult being me!

Andy Craig-Smith

I agree with trev (okay so theres a first for everything), distance is not an excuse, try living in the North (no jokes please), all circuits are a good hike this year.
Then there's Derek the poor sod in Scotland even further !!!!

Steve and I was going to do Anglesey enduro as a team in car No.6 (after discussion & beer in pub) so to increase the grid car No.10 will be there also and we can waltz around our own cars at driver change over.
Will sort entry tomorrow.

Addition to Chris's points.
6)Regular drivers doubling up is also an issue with enduro racing reducing the numbers of cars on the grid
Rocket Dog Racing

Andy Downes

An interesting (and slightly worrying) thread, I have been involved in Club Motorsport for over 30 years and I don't think the 2CV situaution is unique.

All one-make Series/Championships go through high and low points and many of the comments here echo the early days (in the 80s) of the Morgan Only Race Series when we had to cajole and persuade sufficient competitors to make a race.

However in recent years Club Motorsport has become much more businesslike with the circuits and organisers looking for more (guaranteed) income, upping entry fees, and setting mandatory minimum grid sizes or asking Series to 'buy' the grid up front and hence carry the financial risk themselves. This means low numbers now creates really uncomfortable pressure.

The 2CV Racing Club is unique in having a one-make 24 Hour Race and it is fabulously supported, it is also a big draw for many (including ourselves) and just plain exciting ! However it comes early in the season putting a huge drain on people and resources - and in one way the highlight of the season has now passed and so there is likely to be a dip in energy and turnout - the point about Anglesey being so soon is well made.

My other observation is that the way the Series is structured (one simple class) limits the likelihood of anyone other than the 'big boys' winning either an individual race or more importantly the Championship and this may deter people from turning out except when they really want to. Is it worth considering a 'standard' or novice class ? might reduce the costs a bit as well.

I hope you do - but if you don't have a sufficient hard-core of regular competitors, put crudely the Series simply cannot survive.

You have a good thing going here - don't give it up lightly and hang in there !

Andy Downes
Inworth Racing Extravaganza

Nick Roads

my pennies worth

Mary - we had only 1 contact in 23 hours of rain this year. Year before we had 4 or 5 as novices. Possibly as it was your (drivers) first year in 2cv's combined with the rain that accounted for the number of contacts. Do not be put off, we had no contact in any of the other races at all and I do not think there were any contacts (other than with the gravel) at Brands or Stowe this year

I would agree with Helen's post and others in that if there is one bad turnout no need to panic

With that said would agree with Paul's idea of subsidising anglesey as a one off if necessary (possibly with a compromise of dropping to 1 race). As others have pointed out enduro format is what was voted for at AGM so club should be prepared to cover it to an extent - the format can then be changed next year if necessary. If you are going to subsidise it would be nice to somehow support those who do attend as well in some way.

I think the club could also get away with more money being collected from the 24 hour drivers who only attend that race each year and then use that money to subsidise the other events for regulars. I think day membership at £15 is too low in my view for that race when set against the overall cost per driver small beer. Maybe its £ 50 membership for all and you can get back some of the money if as a driver you attend more than 1 race a year (or a driver gets next years membership free if they do more than one race or some variation on that idea). Not sure of the numbers but if you get 120 odd drivers at 24 hour be surprised if 60 of them enter more than 1 race

As detailed before we are going to have to drop one race as the 2 races on different days in a weekend format is more of a problem than the distance for the middle aged with kids brigade. So will not be at angelsey but have sent off final entry today so have entered all the other races

Andy Downes

Quote from: "Nick Roads"day membership at £15 is too low in my view for that race when set against the overall cost per driver small beer. Maybe its £50 membership for all and you can get back some if you do more than one race

Day Membership was indeed £15 per day - Sun + Mon = £30 !

Andy

Nick Roads


Mary Lindsay

Quotewe had only 1 contact in 23 hours of rain this year. Year before we had 4 or 5 as novices. Possibly as it was your (drivers) first year in 2cv's combined with the rain that accounted for the number of contacts.
Nick, I might be inclined to agree with you if the damage had been to the front of the car but all of the damage was sustained to the rear end with the front end still pristine. Also, although we were new to 2CVs we have all driven a variety of cars and are able to keep out of trouble in other events.
I felt that there was a very gung-ho attitude to driving, especially in view of the weather conditions. There was not much give and take when it came to making room on the corners, we were forced onto the grass several times.
Maybe it was not the regular 2CV drivers who were causing the problems but the track did resemble an autocross venue and was littered with debris.

QuoteI do not think there were any contacts (other than with the gravel) at Brands or Stowe this year
Maybe not but I gather that two cars rolled.

Trevor Williams

Nick
Cant drop one race cos i have just got everyone to agree to both races counting to the championship, and there is NO WAY I am going back to BARC / MSA to get the regs changed again

I refer to previous postings along the lines of "thats what was voted for......."

Mary, yes two cars rolled at Brands, one in testing, one in the race. Both on their own with no contact. Both at Paddock Hill Gravel trap. the site of a previous car rolling whilst being driven by a long-standing 2cv racer and endurance champion, wher I and others have very nearly rolled previously. The cars are dificult to drive at the best of times and it normally takes two years or so to get used to them (when we did sprint races anyway)

Trevor
Some days, it's REALLY difficult being me!

Derek Coghill

General reply - my car sustained 2 contacts during the 24hr; one at the side which slightly bent the rear wing and sheared a bolt, one at the front which was so light that the spoiler didn't break (pull wings out and carry on). Distance to travel to races - the only one which has been even remotely close to me in the last 6/7(?) years was at Croft a couple of years ago - and I was in London! Haven't been to Anglesey since my first year racing - oversubscribed grid and didn't qualify. Wasn't happy.....

Work required following 24hr race - a bit of r. wing panelbeating, oil change, valve spring change, check timing and gaps.

Possibly an axle change....

Should I wash it too?

Trevor Williams

Derek
NEVER, NEVER, EVER Wash the car!
Trevor
Some days, it's REALLY difficult being me!

Derek Coghill

Can I quote you next time I get a telling off for not having a shiny car?

Trevor Williams

I haven't washed my car since Thruxton 2001, when I paid for a car-wash in the auction.

Promptly went out in the race, did maybe 1 or 2 laps and the big end went bang.

Superstitious isnt just a song by Stevie Wonder!!
Cheers
Trevor
Some days, it's REALLY difficult being me!

Derek Coghill

Surely if we get to the minimum number of entries then no subsidy is required?